INTERVIEW: Why Belief Atrophies the Mind | Keith Berwick with Krishnamurti | Part 1 Artwork

The Immeasurable Podcast

The Immeasurable is dedicated to exploring the essential questions of our existence; who we are and where we are going. The intent is to inspire listeners to question assumptions of the mind, offering opportunities to ask deep questions into common life themes that are superficially accepted. We take no ideological positions except to encourage the spirit of inquiry. We aim to provide an in-depth look at dialogue and exploration around Krishnamurti’s teachings. There will be interviews of people who have spent time with Krishnamurti, as well as explorations around the content of his teachings, our programs, and our annual conference. The Immeasurable is a project of the Krishnamurti Center in Ojai, CA. The KFA is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization.

All Episodes

The Immeasurable Podcast

INTERVIEW: Why Belief Atrophies the Mind | Keith Berwick with Krishnamurti | Part 1

January 09, 2026 • Krishnamurti Center, Ojai, CA • Season 5 • Episode 55

Welcome back to The Immeasurable Podcast. You're listening to season five.

Recorded in Los Angeles in 1981, this first part of a two-part conversation brings J. Krishnamurti into dialogue with journalist and historian Keith Berwick, a four-time Emmy Award–winning television broadcaster whose work spans journalism, education, and long-form inquiry.

The interview opens with a direct and unsettling question: why did Krishnamurti, in 1929, dissolve the Order of the Star and reject the spiritual authority that had been constructed around him? His response is unequivocal. Religious organizations and belief systems, he says, have not helped human beings face the actual facts of life; instead, they have encouraged escape, conformity, and the worship of persons rather than understanding.

From this point, the conversation moves to what Krishnamurti identifies as the real crisis of the modern world—not political or economic, but psychological. Violence, fear, anxiety, and sorrow persist because the human mind remains conditioned. Choice, he argues, is not freedom but a sign of confusion; where there is clarity, there is no choice, only action.

A central theme of this episode is belief. Krishnamurti challenges belief in all its forms, insisting that belief dulls the brain, turns inquiry into habit, and replaces direct perception with repetition. Ritual, dogma, and identity, he suggests, gradually make the mind mechanical rather than intelligent.

The dialogue also turns to death and fear. Krishnamurti questions why human beings cling to psychological attachments while fearing their ending and introduces one of his most radical assertions: that consciousness is not personal but common to all humanity, shaped by shared patterns of suffering, insecurity, and desire. The illusion of separateness, he argues, lies at the root of conflict.

As the episode concludes, the discussion focuses on thought and relationship. Thought, while essential in practical life, is always limited, and when it governs inward life it produces images that fragment relationship. Where images intervene, there is no real contact. Freedom, Krishnamurti says, is not the freedom to do as one likes, but freedom from the image-building activity of thought itself.

This is Part 1 of the interview. Our next episode will feature Part 2, which continues the inquiry into the nature of the self, authority, love, meditation, and the question of whether there is an instrument of understanding other than thought.

Follow The Immeasurable on Instagram (@krishnamurtifoundationamerica)

Follow The Immeasurable on Tiktok (@j.krishnamurti)

Subscribe to The Immeasurable on YouTube (@theimmeasurable)

Like The Immeasurable on Facebook (facebook.com/theimmeasurable.org)

Visit TheImmesurable.com

Support the show